| 9/30/2008 1:39:50 PM From: emkay64 I have no problem with hunting. This just seems stupid and barbaric to me. What's the point of this? |  |
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9/30/2008 2:24:07 PM From: MrsK OMG! THAT IS HORRIBLE!  A BOUNTY??? WTF??? |  |
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| 9/30/2008 3:57:27 PM From: timesjoke I wonder at how much some people NEED to hate Sarah that they will grasp at anything without even knowing the facts behind it. There is a thing called subsistance hunting, that is where people actually "LIVE" by placing meat on the table from hunting. The wolves in Alaska are killing caribou and moose, the main two needed by subsistance hunters. So as Govenor she must ask a question, protect her people's ability to put food on the table, or kill off some wolves, to me the choice to thin the wolf population is an easy one, sorry wolves, but you have to go...........By the way, I don't think the wolves care if their shot out of a plane or off a jeep, or from a tree stand, they are shot the same no matter what vehicle is used. |  |
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| 9/30/2008 4:36:59 PM From: MrsK If you can afford the gas and manpower to operate a helicopter, you can afford to go to the damned store and buy a steak. | |
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| 9/30/2008 4:38:40 PM From: MrsK Oh my bad - a low flying plane. | |
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| 9/30/2008 4:55:54 PM From: timesjoke You can't be serious. Just in case you are....hard to imagine....killing one wolf could mean thousands of caribou and moose for substance hunters, it is a domino effect that will feed a lot of empty bellies, we are not just talking about that wolf but the wolves that are born from that wolf, on and on into infinity..........So compared to that, one tank of fuel for a plane is nothing, not even a grain of sand on the beach. | |
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| 9/30/2008 4:58:08 PM From: MrsK Please provide a source for these "statistics" you are pointing at. | |
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| 9/30/2008 4:58:52 PM From: MrsK http://www.alaskawolfkill.com/ | |
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9/30/2008 5:00:46 PM From: MrsK From the above cited -
"1. Alaska claims that aerial wolf hunting is based on "sound science," but, as the video (or transcript) clearly shows, that is not true. Both Jeff Hughes, the then Regional Director of the Alaska Department of Fish & Game, and Ben Grussendorf, a current Board of Game member, have stated that they can't justify the program because of a lack of scientific data."
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| 9/30/2008 5:01:41 PM From: MrsK Also from the above cited - "Most of the benefits are going to urban and trophy hunters, not local subsistence hunters who need the meat." | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:02:19 PM From: MrsK "3. Idaho and Wyoming are looking to Alaska to justify beginning aerial wolf hunting programs of their own." | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:03:21 PM From: MrsK Now - this one is my favorite. Because truth be told humans are greedy and glutonous. Which leads me to believe easily that Over hunting is an issue - "4. Overhunting, severe winters, inadequate habitat, poaching, and the lack of enforcement are the more likely causes of reduced prey, not predators." | |
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9/30/2008 5:04:08 PM From: MrsK Lastly from the above cited - "5. The Board of Game ignored both public and science-based concerns in setting harvest goals. They took the artificially high, peak population numbers created after decades of aerial wolf control and poisoning, and used those estimates to set population and harvest targets for each Game Management Unit, thus ensuring that the program would continue forever.
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| 9/30/2008 5:13:53 PM From: timesjoke So you think posting information from a site dedicated to stopping the wolf hunting is trustworthy? Your need to hate Sarah is forcing you to make very silly arguements against her............try this: http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/mar2008/2008-03-18-01.asp | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:15:24 PM From: timesjoke """In his decision, Judge Morse examined the entire history of Alaska's wolf control programs. His ruling upholds the aerial gunning program as a whole, while banning the practice in four areas covering up to 15,000 of the total of about 60,000 square miles covered by the program.""" | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:16:03 PM From: timesjoke """The Alaska Department of Fish and Game estimates there are now between 7,700 and 11,200 wolves in the state. State wildlife managers say they prey too heavily on caribou and moose and that the aerial shooting program will increase the populations of these animals needed by subsistance hunters.""" | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:20:26 PM From: timesjoke This was all played out in the courts and the wacko animal rights groups lost, all the studies, all the numbers, both sides of the arguement met in court and the facts were clear that wolves do harm substance hunters. | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:38:50 PM From: emkay64 Oh TJ--Not quite sure why you get such wood over this chick. She's a smart lady for sure, and pretty to boot. A good model for young girls....sure. Qualified to be Vice President....uhhh...no. BTW...can animal protection groups not be credible? Seems to me in a debate about fatherhood, you cited the fatherhood coalition as being credible....I guess that should apply here no? Anyways her support on this is stupid. We have cows and pigs and chickens bred for our eating purposes. This is inhumane, and you don't need to be a freaky animal rights quacko to see that in the video. | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:39:44 PM From: Rani Keep trying TJ, justify this woman all you want, I am still not going to put in my vote that would put her in a VP office. This is just one more thing that shows her for who she really is, somebody I do not like at all. |  |
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| 9/30/2008 5:44:01 PM From: Rani There are more humane ways of decreasing the wolf population. | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:44:33 PM From: Rani "The more voters learn about Sarah Palin, the less there is to like" | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:45:36 PM From: Rani I mean for God's sake, criminals on Death row get a more humane death! | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:47:22 PM From: eddo value of people > value of wolves. period. |  |
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| 9/30/2008 5:57:48 PM From: Rani excuse me??? I think the value of a wolf is much better than some people! | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:58:13 PM From: Rani I cannot believe that came out your fingers Eddo! | |
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| 9/30/2008 5:58:43 PM From: Rani Just shows what a barbaric and vulgar woman Palin is. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:16:27 PM From: Peanuts Emkay your from Canada and you don't know about substance living? I'm shocked! And let me add to TJ's comment (thanks TJ). If the wolf population is left unchecked it will wipe out vast amounts of the moose and caribou populations. They are a predatory animal that reproduce at an astounding rate. It's not only substance or harvesting as we call it, it's regulatory for other animal populations. |  |
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| 9/30/2008 6:18:14 PM From: Peanuts Rani you can't call out "here boy" and they come. It's an extreamly large area. You can't drive to them. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:20:06 PM From: Peanuts I want you Emkay, MrsK and rani to go to the nearest saluter house and see just how humane that is. Think of that while your eating your next big mac. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:21:23 PM From: Peanuts Hate for her hair or her glasses but find a legitimate reason and leave my dinner alone! | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:23:04 PM From: Peanuts Hate for her hair or her glasses but find a legitimate reason and leave my dinner alone! | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:24:05 PM From: Peanuts I hit my refresh again. I guess that makes a double post. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:27:56 PM From: Peanuts Food like bread and butter costs 3 to 4 times what you and I pay for out in the villages. And they got no McDonald's around the corner. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:28:36 PM From: Rani Peanuts you don't have to tell me how barbaric slaughter houses are, I know how barbaric they are! And it is not OKAY! There is not reason for in slaughter houses than there is for this. If you can hunt wolves like they are being hunted you can use dart guns to sedate them and then take them to be euthanized. Don't tell me it is okay to do what is being done because it is not. I would be more impressed by your beloved Palin if she took a more humane approach to the problem but she doesn't so I am not impressed by her. She sure snowed you Alaskan's, not so easy the rest of America. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:33:30 PM From: timesjoke emkay, why must you assume I 'get wood' just because I support her? Do you believe women can only gain support from men who want to screw them? Is that your experience in life? Are you saying you want to screw Obama because you support him? That sword cuts both ways dear, it seems your telling on yourself. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:35:35 PM From: Peanuts Rani your dreaming. And I understand where your coming from. Life is cruel. Tell me do you have a rat trap? have you ever used rat poison? Same thing. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:35:55 PM From: timesjoke Oh, I gave the fatherhood coalition only as a link to an independant study done in Canada......yes Canada, can't imagine a less conservative study than that..........what MrsK offered was all empty claims without hard numbers to back it up, that is where bias can twist what is said. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:37:54 PM From: Rani You are the one who brought up The NEED to hate Sarah, why you got such a NEED to love her? Personally I do think Obama is sexy enough to shag, McCain, in his younger days was too! But that is just me. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:40:37 PM From: Rani no I don't have a rat trap and no I never used rat poison to get rid of a rat, (they crawl into the walls and stink up the place). I actually only had a problem with mice and rats when I was younger and lived with my parents on the farm...We had cats! | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:41:05 PM From: Peanuts Palin is an Alaskan and she understands what Alaskans need to survive. She implemented them for her constituents. I can't belive you would be so nieve. This is the last frontier. People SURVIVE this way! They have lived this way for hundereds of years! | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:43:46 PM From: Rani I am not opposed to the hunting of the wolves to decrease and maintain the overpopulating of them, I just feel that there are other alternatives that can be utilized to deal with the problem other than what I just watched with my own two eyes. A True politicians that has the best interest of Alaska at heart would consider other alternatives. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:43:53 PM From: Peanuts My beloved Palin wants to protect my gun rights. She also wants drilling. Drilling not only puts gas in your gas tank but it creates jobs. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:45:05 PM From: MrsK Actually Peanuts, I don't eat red meat or pork for the most part. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:45:29 PM From: Peanuts A bullet is not inhumane. That lousy shot the guy did probably was. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:46:07 PM From: Peanuts Well which parts do you eat? | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:47:01 PM From: timesjoke ****emkay-We have cows and pigs and chickens bred for our eating purposes**** Um.....first of all, it is a tad more difficult to maintain large beef farms in that kind of cold than you can imagine, chicken farms and pig farms as well. It is Alaska, it is very cold in Alaska, colder than any of these animals are capable of living through without assistance, the biggest producer of beef in America is Florida, care to guess why? Besides, what matters what animal gets killed? Your saying it is okay to kill a cow but not a wolf, that does not make any sense, but lastly.............What gives you the right to tell these people what kind of meat they should be allowed to eat? They have lived on substance hunting for generation after generation and now because you want to protect a scavenger that is breeding out of control, you want to tell these people they no longer have the right to eat these animals? ......... Another point is they have to pay for processed beef, pork, chicken at the story, the meat they kill costs nothing, are you going to pay for their meats? | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:47:34 PM From: Rani There is no way you are ever going to convince me that Alaskans are so uncivilized that this is the only way they can come up with to deal with the wolves. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:48:26 PM From: MrsK And TJ, had you gone to the website and watched the video and read the transcript what I quoted wouldn't seem like empty statistics. Also, I don't HATE Sarah Palin. I just think she is innept at running the country and that her morals, values, beliefs, and political stances are 100% opposite my own. Stop with the dramatics and argue like a man. *slap slap* | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:56:39 PM From: Rani "A bullet is not inhumane. That lousy shot the guy did probably was." Good point. | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:57:56 PM From: Peanuts I don't know what to tell you Rani. It's truly the last frontier. It's so vast.. I mean you have to fly in bush planes or go by boat to get to these remote areas. Here's a line on Barrow. http://fairbanks-alaska.com/barrow.htm | |
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| 9/30/2008 6:59:21 PM From: timesjoke Why must you "assume" people are uncivilized just because they don't believe what you believe? Not everyone lives in or near a big city where they are crippled by their emotional ties to ideas, some actually work hard just to survive in these areas we are talking about. Try living in their shoes before you brand them all as uncivilized. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:03:05 PM From: timesjoke ****MrsK-Stop with the dramatics and argue like a man*** Childish personal attacks shows you know your wrong. That is why I did actual research instead of jumping on the first biased site I could find. The story I linked gave the Judge's own words at to why the practice is still to be allowed, you cannot be claiming to have better access to more data then the Judge can you? | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:06:57 PM From: Rani I grew up on a farm, I know as much as anyone can know about substance living. I grew up with hunting and fishing as being normal as changing your clothes is a normal thing to do. In my area, we have issues with Deer becoming overpopulated. The entire concept is nothing new to me. I get it that the planes are needed due to the vast wide open area. I just disagree with an open free for all bounty on wolves. Send in experience shooters. Here you have to have a special permit to hunt overpopulated wildlife and you have to show a certian amount of skill in being able to hunt animals in a humane way. Hunting comes with its own code of ethics, perhaps they are different in Alaska than they are here in Virginia. Palin may very well understand Alaskans but does she understand the rest of America? Not from what I can see. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:08:34 PM From: Rani TJ, I assume the opposite, that Alaskans are not uncivilized. Goodness but you really should fully read what is written before you make a comment on something. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:14:25 PM From: Peanuts They shot that down last Aug. TJ I voted for it but it was stopped. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:14:42 PM From: Rani And yes I know that even the most experienced shooter can miss the mark but they are not as likely to miss the well placed shot that would kill the animal instantly versus what I just saw. Bad form for hunting, bad form indeed. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:15:54 PM From: timesjoke ****9/30/2008 6:47:34 PM From: Rani There is no way you are ever going to convince me that Alaskans are so uncivilized that this is the only way they can come up with to deal with the wolves******* Bull, right there you saying that they are uncivilized if they can't come up with another way to deal with the wolves.....don't start back peddling now. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:16:17 PM From: Peanuts Here's a good way to do it emkay, traps!http://www.abhunting.com/Trophy/AlbertaTraplineAdventures/gallery.asp | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:18:12 PM From: Rani I still like the sharpshooters with darts and euthanizing with lethal injection idea the best. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:19:16 PM From: Peanuts OK Rani for you I'll try and get it put on the next measure. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:20:25 PM From: Rani No read it again...I am stating I believe that Alaskans are civilized people and that they can come up with a better way to handle this issue, you cannot convince me to the otherwise so do not insult my personal intelligence by trying to make me believe the otherwise. Understand now? | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:20:32 PM From: timesjoke I have been hunting most of my life (from age 8), I have been a firearms instructor with range master certification for over 14 years. I shot my masters 10 years ago, I have more shooting experience than most and I still miss a clean shot once in awile. Perfection is not something that can be attained. | |
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9/30/2008 7:21:34 PM From: Rani Thank you Peanuts!  You are so good to me. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:23:01 PM From: Rani I think I covered that TJ, but honestly wouldn't you say you would be less likely to miss a clean shot. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:25:18 PM From: Rani See you should be more like peanuts, pop a pappy in my mouth and I am happy, so easy to please, really. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:28:27 PM From: timesjoke Nice dancing with words Rani but you know you meant to say the current actions were uncivilized and their comming up with 'better' ways (in your opinion) would make them civilized. You don't live in that environment, you have no clue what it takes to live there or the hardships they face. I am glad you had some experience on a farm, but it would not prepare you to live in these kinds of isolated communities. Some places don't even have grocery stores they can go to, many times the only way in and out is by plane. The level of difficulty for substance hunting is a completely way of life then you can understand. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:29:28 PM From: Rani that is your assumption but that is not what I meant. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:32:46 PM From: timesjoke Who is saying that these guys are not as good as me? You get a few videos of people shooting wolves and who is to say these are not out of the norm? How do we know they are not staged fake movies from the groups trying to stop the practice? I have an interesting twist, I will post it seperate. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:33:52 PM From: Rani My comment was in response to this comment "9/30/2008 6:41:05 PM From: Peanuts Palin is an Alaskan and she understands what Alaskans need to survive. She implemented them for her constituents. I can't belive you would be so nieve. This is the last frontier. People SURVIVE this way! They have lived this way for hundereds of years!" Meaning, exactly what I said, You cannot convince me Alaskans are that uncivilized. Stop making assumptions and know what you are replying to. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:34:01 PM From: Peanuts Take a breath TJ...it's cool. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:35:56 PM From: timesjoke The suffering of the wolf being shot seems to be the reason for complaints. What about the suffering of the caribou and moose by being attacked and slowly killed by the wolves? By shooting the wolves and shooting the caribou and moose, we give all animals less suffering, is that not better? Surely the animal rights groups would not want the caribou and moose to suffer long and terror filled deaths........right? | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:38:56 PM From: Rani I am only stating an experienced shooter would have a better chance of making a clean shot than an average shooter would have. I am sure making a shot from a moving plane isn't all that easy to do. I am very skilled myself at using a firearm but I cannot make the same claim you have made as far as experience would go, who would you say would have a better chance of making a clean shot from a moving plane, you or me? | |
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9/30/2008 7:40:57 PM From: timesjoke Keep dancing Rani, I love great dancers, lol  | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:41:31 PM From: Rani I wouldn't know about animal rights groups as I have never been a member of one. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:43:14 PM From: timesjoke My question was how do you know these people making the shots are not as experienced as I am? You could follow me around with a camera and edit out all my clean shots and only publish my mistakes and make me look every bit as bad as these videos. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:43:20 PM From: Rani Whatever TJ, I went the extra mile clarify what I meant and what I was thinking when I made my comment if you choose to reject that and think you know better what is in my brain, go for it. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:44:07 PM From: Rani I don't know the experience of the shooters in question, I just know they screwed up the shot. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:45:17 PM From: Rani How do you know that they are? It is moot. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:46:18 PM From: Ali Hoo boy. emkay, I think this is a great post, but there is no way I can watch the clip. It would break my heart. |  |
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| 9/30/2008 7:46:54 PM From: MrsK TJ - Childish personal attack? Please, tell me you're kidding. I thought you had thicker skin than that. At any rate, I provided my source and you chose to cover you ears and insist you can't hear. Hey, if you want to play the ognorance is bliss game, I can't stop you. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:48:02 PM From: MrsK Yes Ali it would. You can actually hear the poor wolf crying out in PAIN. I guess torturing animals is the kind of thing TJ goes for. | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:49:41 PM From: timesjoke ****9/30/2008 7:44:07 PM From: Rani I don't know the experience of the shooters in question, I just know they screwed up the shot**** That is my point, you don't know, I don't know, but the Judge was given all this information, the judge did adjust a couple things but supported the operation. We cannot 'assume' that the videos of a couple bad shots are true examples of the average shooting of a wolf in this program.............And what about my point about killing the wolves meant way less suffering by the caribou and moose? Does this not allow for a certain degree of offset? Less suffering overall? | |
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| 9/30/2008 7:55:09 PM From: timesjoke ****MrsK-I guess torturing animals is the kind of thing TJ goes for****NOW THAT IS JUST BULLSHIT. Why is it you feel a need to make these kinds of personal slanders when your handed your ass in a debate? If you can't compete, get off the field, it is not my fault you not too good at these things.........And yes, I do have think skin, but I was wanting to leave Wez tactics far behind me, was I hoping for too much??????????? | |
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| 9/30/2008 8:04:03 PM From: Ali #1) - I am not against hunting. When a hunter is properly licensed, not poaching, well trained with a rifle and willing to eat what he brings down then that's fine with me. A true sportsman is a good sportsman. #2) "Generations of people have relied on substance hunting of moose and caribou for hundreds of years" - I believe that, no question. However, wolves have existed for hundreds of years as well. I'm sure there has been an increase and decrease in the numbers of predator and prey over those hundreds of years as nature dictated. Life is sometimes cruel...and lean. Mankind has been around for millions of years. The helicopter has been around for less than 100 of them. #3) If the remote villages are having wolf population problems, let them request special hunting permits to take care of the population themselves. However I think a biologist should be sent out to investigate the situation and recommend the best course of action to help alleviate the problem in the most humane way possible. #4) I don't care what anyone says, I think indicriminately shooting masses of any animal from a helicopter is wrong and about the least sportsmanlike way of bagging a "trophy" I know. #5) TJ - when did you yourself live in a remote village in Alaska? Have you? Then why is rani's opinion on the matter any less significant than yours? #6)"The suffering of the wolf being shot seems to be the reason for complaints. What about the suffering of the caribou and moose by being attacked and slowly killed by the wolves? By shooting the wolves and shooting the caribou and moose, we give all animals less suffering, is that not better? Surely the animal rights groups would not want the caribou and moose to suffer long and terror filled deaths........right?" - That was just fukking dumb. How far up your ass did you have to reach for that little gem? I hope you wore a glove. | |
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9/30/2008 8:04:13 PM From: Peanuts The pain ohhh the pain.. I didn't hear it MrsK..
TJ brought up the fact that when a pack of wolves kill a moose they don't do it in a humane way. That moose suffers greatly! This is nature we're talking about and we are in it. | |
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| 9/30/2008 8:05:21 PM From: Rani TJ, there are better solutions than a free for all bounty. Yes, I agree something has to be done about the overpopulation of the wolves. First of all limiting the hunting to hunters that can prove they have the experience to actually make the clean shot, would be a step in the right direction. What about tagging programs, what about capturing the wolves and earning an income by selling them to zoos throughout the world, what about capturing wolves and sterilizing them. The wolves do play an important role in Alaskan survival in that they do offset overpopulation of other animals which would cause other problems to deal with. Overpopulation is the problem, not the wolves. If you can hunt wolves from a plane to kill them you can hunt animals from a plane to capture them as well. | |
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| 9/30/2008 8:06:29 PM From: Ali Peanuts - nature doesn't involve helicopters and high powered scopes. It can't be both ways, IMO. | |
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| 9/30/2008 8:06:51 PM From: Peanuts Ali they do request permits and are allowed to hunt wolves. They are pretty damn hard to catch though. If your freezing your hungry ass off you don't wanna have to dick around killing wolves so you can then go harvest your food. | |
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| 9/30/2008 8:08:14 PM From: Peanuts Yes they do Ali. Just because man has a brain dose not take us out of the equation | |
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| 9/30/2008 8:11:32 PM From: Peanuts Rani they need a plane just to shoot them, how are they gonna sterlize them? | |
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| 9/30/2008 8:47:48 PM From: coenlaf Some will grasp at any reason not to like someone. Answer me this...what makes the wolf worth more than the animals that they kill to survive? Think about this, a leader must make tough choices for the good of the people. She made this choice. If you can not deal with animal population being culled (as I'm sure obama or biden would never do) how do you deal with a nuclear Iran? Korea? Or any human threat to the country? Or as at least one of you said above,...since a wolf has more value than a human, perhaps this wont be a problem. | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:08:26 PM From: MrsK *snickers* Wez tactics? Right. Now which one of us is using tactics to rile the other? My ass is still perfectly in tact thank you. | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:13:15 PM From: MrsK A wolf doesn't have a helicopter of plane to go around hunting its' prey. A wolf won't mount his prey's head on a wall like some twisted symbol. A wolf doesn't have a rifle or knives, or tranq's. A Wolf can't offer a $150 bounty on a human or moose. They have thier teeth and thier speed and the God Given attributes of a Natural Predator. There is no sport in how these animals are dealt with. They are not eaten or used for shelter. Whereas a wolf kills to survive in its natural habitat. | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:13:55 PM From: Rani They still have to go back and land the plane, sever the foreleg to collect the bounty. If they can do that, they can retrieve the entire animal and bring it in. Who you trying to fool? | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:23:51 PM From: Rani Well said MK, when humans go out into the wolves turf and start hunting them with your bare hands and skill, with no weapons then you can say, job well done and the wolves are bad because they to want to survive, you know they eat the caribou and moose the wolves too survive by "substance living." | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:28:37 PM From: Rani conelaf, just like I told TJ I will tell you, make sure you know what you are replying to when you makes statements like "since a wolf has more value than a human" My comment about the wolf having more value than some people was in reference to Eddo's remark about humans having greater value than wolves, in reference to how even criminals on death row receive humane deaths. Take time to read before inserting foot in mouth. | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:30:09 PM From: Peanuts Again just because we have intellect dose not take us out of the food chain. | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:30:52 PM From: Rani I have freely stated many reason why I do not like Sarah Palin, enough that I feel justified in not voting her into the VP spot. Maybe she is good for Alaska, wonderful, she should stay in Alaska. | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:34:43 PM From: MrsK "Intellect - 1 a: the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will : the capacity for knowledge b: the capacity for rational or intelligent thought especially when highly developed" IMO - rationale does not include killing for sport and justifying the waste of an animal by saying that "they deserve to die because they eat..." | |
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9/30/2008 9:41:33 PM From: MrsK From Wikipedia - Due to the northern climate and steep terrain, relatively little farming occurs in Alaska. Most farms are in either the Matanuska Valley, about 40 miles northeast of Anchorage, or on the Kenai Peninsula, about 60 miles southwest of Anchorage. The short 100-day growing season limits the crops that can be grown, but the long sunny summer days make for productive growing seasons. The primary crops are potatoes, carrots, lettuce, and cabbage.
Alaska has an abundance of seafood, with the primary fisheries in the Bering Sea and the North Pacific, and seafood is one of the few food items that is often cheaper within the state than outside it. Many Alaskans fish the rivers during Salmon season to gather significant quantities of their household diet while fishing for subsistence, sport, or both.
Hunting for subsistence, primarily caribou, moose, and sheep is still common in the state, particularly in remote Bush communities. An example of a traditional native food is Akutaq, the Eskimo ice cream, which can consist of reindeer fat, seal oil, dried fish meat and local berries.
Most food in Alaska is transported into the state from "outside", and shipping costs make food in the cities relatively expensive. In rural areas, subsistence hunting and gathering is an essential activity because imported food is prohibitively expense. The cost of importing food to villages begins at $0.07/lb and rises rapidly to $0.50/lb or more. The cost of delivering a 7-pound gallon of milk is about $3.50 in many villages where per capita income can be $20,000 or less. Fuel for snow machines and boats that consume a couple gallons per hour can exceed $8.00. | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:43:41 PM From: eddo "Actually Peanuts, I don't eat red meat or pork for the most part." Isn't that like "kinda having" cancer? | |
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| 9/30/2008 9:46:31 PM From: MrsK No, it means that I don't buy red meat or pork. But if I am a guest in someones home and that is what they are serving I won't be rude and not eat. (In my culture, turning down food is an insult). | |
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| 9/30/2008 10:06:36 PM From: MrsK That includes when I go out to eat. All I ever order is chicken. | |
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10/1/2008 12:08:56 AM From: ImWithStupid Here's a video for your self rightous chicken eating self... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dABklS-kbM
Hypocrit. Any eating of meat involves the death of something. |  |
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| 10/1/2008 4:21:14 AM From: timesjoke ^^^I have to say, IWS got you with that one, if you 'ever' eat meat of any kind, your part of the cruilty to animals......I will again go back to my question that seems to be stirring up the pot a tad, if this is about cruilty to an animal, causing fear, pain, and death over a period of time rather than a quick/painless death, why not consider the pain and suffering that is saved by removing a wolf? The wolf causes many times more pain and suffering, during it's lifetime it will kill a lot of animals, and it's offspring will do the same, over and over. By trimming down the overpopulation of wolves there is greater subsistance hunting, that means more needed food on the table for people and it also means less suffering for the animals who are killed by being shot rather than slowly devoured by hungry wolves while still alive. What sounds more humane? | |
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| 10/1/2008 6:02:19 AM From: BCAR Stupid fracks. Bountys on Coyotes Wolves etc. have been around for decades and this is nothing new. The wolf has been on and off the endangered species list and I guess now it's off again. Hunting from planes??? Well I'm no fan of it, but if it's legal then whatever. BTW for the also uninformed hunting game animals (deer, elk, etc) is illegal in all 50 States. As for anti hunters, Fine don't hunt, I won't make you, just leave me the f uck alone. I buy permits, I obey the laws, I hunt ethically, I consume what I shoot, I enjoy it. Go to Denny's, and enjoy some industrial raised chicken full of antbiotics that has had a diet of at least 30% chicken waste and byproducts and spent it's entire life in a big shed walking on concrete. |  |
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| 10/1/2008 6:03:53 AM From: BCAR Correction/ omission/ typo: Hunting game animals (deer, elk etc) from an airplane or vehicle is illegal in all 50 states. | |
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| 10/1/2008 6:50:49 AM From: MrsK Ummmm, I didn't make it self righteous, animal rights act not eating red meat or pork. I just don't eat it because I don't like to. Furthermore, I know how to kill a chicken myself. | |
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| 10/1/2008 6:52:05 AM From: MrsK Grab the body, twist the neck off, slam the corpse onte the pavement, press out the remaining oxygen so that it doesn't get up and run, and laugh when it goes "hooooonk". Sounds cruel I know, but fresh chicken is the best I've ever had. | |
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| 10/1/2008 6:54:00 AM From: MrsK Oh - hold by the feet, submerge corpse into boiling vat of eater, spend a good amount of time meticulously plucking (I HATE finding feathers in my food!) carve up and cook. Yummmm! | |
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| 10/1/2008 6:54:42 AM From: mercury Watching them run and flip around with no head was the best part of slaughter day when I was a kid ;o) I couldn't eat them for months after the plucking session though. ICK! |  |
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| 10/1/2008 6:55:55 AM From: MrsK vat of *water.... | |
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| 10/1/2008 6:58:00 AM From: MrsK Oh and THAT method is FAR more humane. I am using no weapons. Just the hands God(s) gave me. I am not fyling overhead picking them off with a high powered rifle. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:00:16 AM From: MrsK Oh Merc! I loved plucking! Me and the ladies would sit around "nostalgic" I guess? But if I saw them get up and run around I don't think I could handle that. Ick! | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:01:42 AM From: MrsK I hate it when half of my sentence dissappears. I was saying that sitting around in a circle with te other ladies plucking chickens made me feel like I was living in a close knit little village, it was "nostalgic" I guess? | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:02:00 AM From: mercury it was funny.... sometimes they'd do triple somersaults! wholesome entertainment for a farm kid ;o) wet feathers just reek and turn my stomach. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:04:06 AM From: emkay64 Hmmm....this sure got under everyone's skin. I put this up purely for debate purposes. I was interested in seeing if even the most staunch supporters of Pahlin may agree that this isn't the best thing to take a stand on. I don't support Obama or McCain. I think McCain is a maroon and Obama is wishy washy. I don't believe any one person is capable of running a country. I also have nothing against Pahlin really at all, except her lack of experience. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:05:49 AM From: MrsK Merc that gives me the heebiejeebies! | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:06:13 AM From: mercury I didn't like it with the turkeys, though. That always made me cry, even though I hated the turkeys more than the chickens. My dad would hypnotize the chickens and whack their head off with an axe. He tried it with the turkeys, but the head didn't always detach. It was pretty traumatic. One year they told me we were having a big chicken for Thanksgiving because I refused to eat a turkey that had been tortured. I bought it, too. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:08:00 AM From: emkay64 TJ--When I mentioned "wood" I meant wooden, staunch supporter, rigid. I don't understand why a person has to support everything a candidate throws out there. I was just curious to see if anyone could be objective. However, you resorted to personal insinuations about me and that's fine. I have thick skin. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:08:59 AM From: MrsK I can't say I've ever killed a turkey. But we did geese, duck, and goat too. I won't eat goat either though. Besides, the sounds they make during slaughter are enough to bring tears to your eyes. It sounds like a little child screaming. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:10:35 AM From: emkay64 As for the hunting issue. No objection whatsoever. It's fair. I didn't like the idea of running down an animal in a plane and shooting them because they're breeding too quickly. LOL...hell...humans can be accused of that. It seems wasteful and a shame. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:13:44 AM From: Rani As you can see Emkay, Palin supporters are devoted supporters. As far as McCain and Obama, you got one, you got the other, a few variables here and yonder but pretty much the same. Picking Palin apart because she is the different one is fun. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:13:55 AM From: emkay64 TJ--as for the "suffering" of animals at the mercy of the wolves...well...give me a break. The killing of animals for food between animal species is necessary. You should start a group "Animals for the ethical treatment of animals group". | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:15:03 AM From: mercury ^^LMAO! I wonder if PETA would take up their cause? | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:17:08 AM From: Rani As far as a person goes, I think Palin is just fine, I just do not think she is ready to make the jump to a VP position. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:17:42 AM From: MrsK AETA | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:18:11 AM From: mercury I'm on the same page as emkay here. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:18:15 AM From: emkay64 Peanuts--I don't like leg hold traps either, and I've visited slaughterhouses and watched my Dad shoot the cows, bleed the pigs and slaughter the chickens. Killing is necessary, I just think it should be fair, humane and not wasteful. They aren't eating the wolves...it's a dead wasted animal, with it's leg cut off to collect a bounty, by humans in a plane running down an animal (not fair in my opinion). As usual animals and the environment keep paying the price for our exploding populations...it's a good thing animals can't shoot. | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:19:53 AM From: mercury let's just hope evolution doesn't allow them to grow thumbs :P | |
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| 10/1/2008 7:21:39 AM From: MrsK "BCAR Stupid fracks. Bountys on Coyotes Wolves etc. have been around for decades and this is nothing new. The wolf has been on and off the endangered species list and I guess now it's off again. Hunting from planes??? Well I'm no fan of it, but if it's legal then whatever." I understand your position Bcar. And I don't think hunting is an evil sport. I think hunting to WASTE is an evil sport. Just because something is legal makes it right??? I don't think so. | |
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